tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post6398199785380162873..comments2024-03-24T06:46:27.842+00:00Comments on UK Rail: Crossrail 2 - flawsStephen Colebournehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01454237967846880639noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post-43658822155729934772013-08-21T13:23:46.246+01:002013-08-21T13:23:46.246+01:00One reason is that it is likely that some of the b...One reason is that it is likely that some of the branches may get converted to overhead electrification. That would make it a lot trickier to run Waterloo services as they would need to be dual voltage. I note that the electrification factor may also mean no more Dorking/Leatherhead to Waterloo services, although that is more speculative at this point.<br /><br />The simplicity and resilence aspect is a big factor. Crossrail 1 was obsessed in planning with resilience, as getting 24tph in the core is hard when linking in with NR. And CR2 is planning 30tph, which is obviously even harder.<br /><br />One possibility is that Epsom, Chessington and Twickenham via Kingston might be completely CR2 (overhead electrification). Dorking and Leatherhead routed to Victoria via Sutton. Shepperton to Waterloo via Richmond (thus no Kingston to Shepperton services). Sutton to Waterloo via Wimbledon (to serve Earlsfield).<br /><br />The above is a speculation, but it could be operated completely on its own tracks with a little work. Its too early for NR/TfL to have a final opinion publicly, although I'm certain there are a few options at the very least in peoples heads in NR/TfL's.<br /><br />While I could see Kingston retaining a Waterloo service, I find it unlikely myself that Epsom and Chessington will. I think NR's comments were more about managing politicians than being entirely likely. Metro systems in general thrive on single route single destination simplicity.<br /><br />The minimum that SW London should be campaigning for is an additional station at Green Park. That station would provide easy changes via the Jubilee for Waterloo, Southwark and London Bridge where many current Waterloo walkers travel to. Personally, I still think that a cross-platform interchange at Wimbledon is by far the best solution for rail users though if CR2 must go via Victoria (Crossrail SSW).<br /><br />I do intend to publish my full alternate proposal soon.Stephen Colebournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01454237967846880639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post-49227909518827662082013-08-21T13:07:25.751+01:002013-08-21T13:07:25.751+01:00Hi Stephen,
Can you outline why wholesale separat...Hi Stephen,<br /><br />Can you outline why wholesale separation on routes to Chessington, Epsom and Shepperton is the sensible option? I guess that the maintained resilience of just having one operator on the line might be a factor, but I'd be keen to know of the others.<br /><br />I'm led to believe that at the time of the CR2 consultation phase, Local Authorities had been told by NR that there was "no proposal to end Waterloo services from any station". The London Assembly report contradicted this by saying:<br /><br />“We understand that Crossrail 2 would replace some existing inner suburban routes, but the net impact for passengers at affected stations is not clear. Network Rail told the Committee that Crossrail 2 would not mean reduced services on existing routes, stating: 'there will be nothing worse than the current level of service or an increase'. We also know that in order to accommodate Crossrail 2, some stations will lose a direct Waterloo service, although Network Rail expects that most would retain a direct service.” <br /><br />My local authority are now following up the issue of Waterloo access with NR, and the local paper has talked to Steven Knight (Lib Dem AM) who addressed the issue in terms of Kingston losing Waterloo via Richmond services.<br /><br />I guess that NR's use of "most" could mean just over half the stations, or all bar a few, but by couching the service change in terms of stations and not branch lines, it doesn't look obvious that NR are planning to implement what you describe as the sensible approach of wholesale separation. Any thoughts?<br /><br /><br /><br />Paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post-54755742507942403872013-08-09T09:50:15.900+01:002013-08-09T09:50:15.900+01:00Re Justin:
CR2 includes the 5th track from Surbito...Re Justin:<br />CR2 includes the 5th track from Surbiton to just south of Wimbledon (i.e. the cheaper section to build) with the tunnel from Wimbledon north instead.<br />Unless you rebuild Herne Hill with a flyover there is hardly any extra capacity for Tooting to Blackfriars services.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post-67192826956820606402013-08-09T09:12:58.794+01:002013-08-09T09:12:58.794+01:00See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11...See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11305340 . Not that I like it either...Stephen Colebournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01454237967846880639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post-10247129023493677132013-08-09T02:14:15.531+01:002013-08-09T02:14:15.531+01:00and solve the Northern Line issues in the south by...and solve the Northern Line issues in the south by putting in a new station at Tooting to make the existing Tooting station into an interchange. Put a flyover in at the complex of junctions in between Tooting and Streatham. Lots of permutations here. Tooting to Blackfriars and London Bridge as at present, or can also add in East London Line as was mooted many years back.<br />The fifth reversible line needs to go in between Waterloo and Surbiton too, as per the Network Rail IIP. Justin Fiddlewicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post-75660169553863018502013-08-09T02:09:19.679+01:002013-08-09T02:09:19.679+01:00Expensive scheme with too many costly stations und...Expensive scheme with too many costly stations underground.<br /><br />Grosvenor bridge is wide. Start tunnelling north of that, with a station at Victoria, at TCR and one at Euston-Kings-Cross-Saint-Pancras, surfacing just north of Kings Cross to take up the spare space of that now-4-track and formerly-6-track formation. Stop at Finsbury Park, then another tunnel to link onto the Gospel Oak line (have a three track formation here with one reversible line for freight) and then stops at Harringay Green Lanes (dig a new Piccadilly Line station here if need be) and then via new west-north curves to Seven Sisters, Tottenham Hale and beyond. Lots of permutations possible on that theme in the north. <br />In the south, Crossrail 2 ought to take up lines into Victoria, not Waterloo. There's lots of space in and around Clapham Junction for flyovers and jiggling lines around with different permutations possible.<br />As for Waterloo lines - your Swanlink is the answer!Justin Fiddlewicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5925703452051453468.post-4505748795078249872013-08-09T02:01:50.397+01:002013-08-09T02:01:50.397+01:00what's all this 'midtown' stuff? never...what's all this 'midtown' stuff? never heard that expression before applied to londonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com